Title reads like at ad, but this is a new way to reach energy independence. I actually have a small EcoFlow device and it’s pretty good for the price.
I hope this tech can be made available in the US soon.
Plug-in systems are built around a microinverter that feeds solar energy back into the home via a standard wall jack.
What the actual fuck?
The PowerStream has three proprietary ports: one that connects to your MC4 solar panels
Disqualified.
First part is classic stuff right?
Should not be via a standard wall jack. As far as I know.
Depends on electrical code which depends on, most of all, your standard plugs. In Germany Schuko is deemed non-optimal, but acceptable, for up to 800W.
…no issues regarding exposed prongs, if the inverter doesn’t see AC to sync to it doesn’t output anything. It’s not a dumb spinny magnet generator we’re talking about here.
Most people don’t have an outlet on their balcony, though, and weather-proofing the thing is an issue in any case so while you’re at it you can just as well put in a proper Wieland outlet. 20 bucks or so, the expensive part will be the electrician not the outlet.
In Germany Schuko is deemed non-optimal, but acceptable, for up to 800W.
In the UK our everyday plug is rated for 13A - nearly 3KW. The plug on my phone charger is the same as the one on my tumble dryer and I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bag thing.
Schuko is rated for 16A continuous for one hour, 3680W, I think the UK plug would actually take quite a bit more you’re just being conservative. Or something odd about ring circuits I don’t want to think about.
In any case practically nothing in a household actually uses 3kW. A stove, yes, but that’s connected to three phases and without a plug (usually 3x20A over here – CEE plugs can do that but they’re chonkers and how often do you move your stove). Newer dryers should stay under 1kW, the standard high load appliances are kettles and hair dryers.
Eh, that’s pretty standard where I live. Didn’t even know there were non standard wall jacks lol
I’m also against proprietary systems but is there an open alternative?
Plug-in systems are built around a microinverter that feeds solar energy back into the home via a standard wall jack.
What the actual fuck?
What’s wrong with that? That’s how basically any balcony solar system works.
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Yeah, non-USA for this atm, as much fun as it would be to plug such a system into an apartment.
I believe that the US requires that a direct-feed system has to plug into a physical kill switch setup to prevent back-feed of power during an outage.
Still pretty neat, though!
Same for the EU.
Solar inverters also need to follow the grid frequency
They don’t follow the grid frequency because the EU or US regulations require it, they follow the grid frequency because physics demands it.
In this house we obey Ohm’s law!
Not necessarily. While running parallel to the grid or needs to sync to it of course, but when running in island mode it can do whatever it feels like - if it supports that. My Fronius runs at 52Hz e.g. to keep other generators in the island from starting up.
Interesting - which other generators for example wouldn’t you want starting up?
An engineer dabbling in such things explained to me, that it is hard enough to regulate a small island network frequency and voltage-wise from a single point. Reacting to whatever another source (something like another solar inverter out in the garden with a few panels of its own, e.g.) in the same island grid does could easily lead to potentially destructive oscillations in the regulation circuit. Large grids have “mass” - literally, because large generators and electric motors are spinning at whatever speed they are spinning in whatever phase they are in. So small disturbances from regulating too quickly or a little wrong just disappear into that. The same doesn’t go for a small island grid, so at Fronius they have decided to put 52Hz on the grid which by standard prevents other sources from syncing. Electric utilities do the same when they have to power small villages from diesel generators temporarily - 52Hz and the house mounted solar generators don’t sync.
I think I get that, thanks. So an Island grid is less stable and could cause itself damage if two microinverters say are trying to sync up to each other vs a beefy, stable main grid?
So how does a backup battery system work when islanded? Typically also at 52Hz?
Or can it go into a 60Hz beefy mode?
It would be nice to get all the little island solar inverters working when the grid goes down!
I’m guessing the commenter above is in the EU and operating at 50Hz normally, so running at 60Hz wouldn’t be a great idea. A backup battery and such operate in the same way when islanding.
Yep. And in my case, the backup battery is connected to another DC input on the inverter and the inverter pretty much manages everything. As I understand the documentation, there is no other way to use solar AND a battery at the same time as a power source for islanding. Switching over manually with a short disruption in-between is always possible of course, as is charging an AC coupled battery from an islanding solar inverter.
@Pretzilla@lemmy.world
Also in the US regular 120v outlets are fed from 1 of 2 transformer legs. If you back fed power through a 120v outlet, roughly half of the circuits in your home would function and the others would be dead.
And disclaimer: no one should do this, but when the transfer switch disconnects from the grid, would it work to jump say a breaker across the L1-L2 hots to share that 120v backfeed over both?
Clearly the 240v appliances won’t work in this configuration, but the fridge on one leg and the internet on the other will still work ok, right?
Again, no one try this - it’s just a thought exercise.
Yes, it will actually work. I know it’s very much not to code, but when we lost power for over 10 days, I did this to keep our furnace running and us from freezing to death since it was -10F out.
I only have a small 120V generator, but hooked both legs to hot and backfed via our EV charger’s outlet, since its a 50A circuit. Like you said, nothing 240V worked, but that little 3kW generator did a great job powering basically the whole house with no issues.
That winter was definitely a big driver for me to get a backup battery system so our solar could power the house.
According to the article this system also detects power outages and shuts off when they happen. Just like full-scale solar power systems. But yeah, no physical kill switch.
I hate technologies that limit cannot use with another manufacturer’s battery". Smells monopoly.
I would, but i’m not allowed by the HOA the hang shit on my balcony.
Fuck’n HOA assholes.
My balcony is also on the right side of the building too, it would be perfect.
Vote.
I ran my small HOA for 1 term and people came at me, bitched about stuff and I got them to come to a meeting where the other homeowners could express their concerns about the proposal and we’d come to an agreement and write up a change. It was no big deal. We even negotiated group rates for shared services and made it so that the costs of the HOA were offset by the savings from the services.
On the other side of the coin, when I left my position to give somebody else a turn at the process I largely automated, they ran it into the ground and bankrupted it while chasing a personal grievance against the city.
Somehow, the HOA attracts power hungry nobodies but they can be voted out if you’re willing to work at it. Also, talk to your neighbors. My guess is that there are others who would back your proposal.
I can’t really find any info regarding renters when it comes to these hoa things or being allowed to partake in a meeting, but i would assume they could care less about a renters opinion unless it benefits them.
I can’t afford to be a homeowner.
I’m sorry to hear that. I remember renting and the feeling of having no control over the whims of the landlord.
HOAholes
Worst Santa.
Aren’t you supposed to be the land of the free?
That’s just what our fascist oppressors tell us.
Wow that’s interesting. I hate how much power my pool eats up in the summer, I’ve been looking for something economical to help run it off of clean energy since the pump runs during peak solar hours anyway.
You can do that today with their setup I think. You would need to plug the pump into one of their batteries and run their solar panel to the battery. You’d also put the battery on grid power.
The article is focused on an inverter that pushes energy back to the grid, something we don’t have yet at this market level.
If you just need the energy for the pool, a small setup without battery is all you need. Saves you half the price. Panels and inverters are around 900€ in Germany. Putting a battery on it makes another 1,200€ and it makes sense only, if you need power in the evening.
Yeah I’m trying to figure out what makes sense for me. I suppose a system with a battery in my home would be nice.
Thermal solar may be better if you only want to heat the pool.
I’m looking to run my pump. A little surplus to offset my AC would be nice too. I see there are special pool pumps made specifically for solar installs but my existing pump is only a couple of years old.
Just get solar then. Seems like the solution you are looking for, no?
Yeah, but between federal and state credits, different types of systems, etc. I’ve had a hard time determining what makes the most sense for me. Doesn’t help that trying to do online research quickly funnels you into sales bs.
it’s astonishing how many people in !technology@lemmy.world don’t know anything about this technology
Most European residential electric systems operate at 240v, versus 120v in the US, which means you can only backfeed a US outlet with half the power you could in a European outlet. That alone makes this system half as useful for US applications.
If one of these were made for the US market it would obviously be configured to work at the US mains voltage and frequency. (Europe is 50hz, US is 60).
Your home’s power input is also 240 volts in the US, regardless of being split into two 120 volt rails at the breaker box. It would be trivial to hook up a 240 volt system if you really wanted to, albeit not through one of your regular 5-15/5-20 outlets. You’d have to do it via a dryer outlet or something.
Watts are watts. If the unit is capable of feeding 800 watts into your home’s electrical system, the voltage is irrelevant provided it can supply sufficient amps. A normal US household circuit is 15 amps, so a hypothetical US version of this thing would have to supply ~6-2/3 amps at 120v rather than ~3-1/3 amps at 240v. No big deal. It’s not even close to maxing out a single residential circuit on either continent.
Just to expand, here’s a list of typical 240V appliances in a typical American home:
- Furnace/Heat Pump
- Air Conditioning
- Electric Range/Stove
- Electric clothes Dryer
And some homes have:
- Hot Tub/Spa
Don’t conflate 120V/15A standard outlets with not having 240V at all. All homes have 240V or high power appliances wouldn’t function.
I have a couple in my garage because the previous owner liked carpentry, and I’ll use it when I get an EV.
That’s not that uncommon.
Just want to post a pic of a 20a 220v US outlet for those who don’t know about it.
It fits in a standard box, so you don’t have to use a dryer plug if someone wanted to feed power back in through a outlet. (Of course with a device designed to feed in safely.)
The USA officially hasn’t used 110v/220v since the 1950s. Its 120v/240v and 230v in Europe.
Your home’s power input is also 240 volts in the US
It’s not actually 230V in Europe, it’s 400V. Between each pair of the three phases, that is, between phase and neutral there’s 230V. (If there’s a neutral and you don’t create it locally, different topic).
…but I’d actually have different doubts about using the whole thing in the US: Your plugs. Schukos aren’t meant for the purpose and only code for up to 800W when used to backfeed. That’s almost 1/5th of their 1 hour continuous rating. With those flimsy tinfoil plugs you have you’re going to need special outlets, or hard-wire them.
Why is there always at least one European in these threads misunderstanding how North American power works?
