They will just enable it by default later when the heat passes. They always do. You no longer own Windows.
Never did. It’s just more and more obvious with each new “feature” that it’s built for monetization, not for user functionality.
In the '90s and early 2000s, Microsoft’s business model was the classic one of selling products to customers. Today, it’s all about the cloud, advertising, and AI, where the product is the user.
My prediction is essentially one day windows pcs will be Linux that act like thin clients that go to windows 365.
“The ability to disable the…feature during the setup process…” does not mean opt in, that means opt out.
Knowing windows setup, you need to click customize during the setup process and then go through several setup pages before you’re presented this option (or have to dig into additional/advanced settings to find it).
Most people won’t do this, won’t know how to do this, or will receive the pc with the initial setup complete and won’t know if this is on or off.
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This is the screen the user is presented during setup.
Even without all the invasion of privacy implications, I’m skeptical it would even work. Source: 20 years of “Windows is checking for a solution to the problem” that has never worked even once.
They’ve fixed an otherwise aneurism inducing audio problem a few times for me.
Remember when making a Microsoft cloud account was optional during Windows installs, and it was trivia to skip/opt out?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
They are 100% going to do the same thing here.
Ok, let’s assume (for the sake of argument) that everything is on the up-and-up, and Microsoft will behave in a completely equitable and user-friendly way with regard to this feature going forward. Where does that leave us?
There is a spyware feature built into Windows 11. It is off by default, but a malware that wants to capture this kind of information doesn’t have to install anything, and it doesn’t have to run any background processes that might get caught by a system monitor or blocked by application whitelisting. All it has to do is turn this built-in feature on, and then exfiltrate the data later.
Setting this off by default doesn’t remove the security issue.
Ok, let’s assume (for the sake of argument) that everything is on the up-and-up, and Microsoft will behave in a completely equitable and user-friendly way with regard to this feature going forward
This is so fantastical that there’s no point in even having the hypothetical discussion about it.
You’re right, it’s fantastical, but it’s still worth talking about.
It’s worth talking about as it solidifies the argument more than just assuming your opponent is acting poorly. The argument of “Even if Microsoft is a saint, it’s still a bad idea. But we know Microsoft also has a history of data collection, spying, anti-patterns etc.” is a much stronger argument than the latter half on its own
You’re right, it’s fantastical, but it’s still worth talking about.
Is it though?
It’s a feature which is very clearly evil and of very little benefit to the user. Only a shit business like Microsoft would even attempt it, lie about it being secure, then make it “optional” (and we all know what that means) and it will still be an insecure mess when it’s done, sucking down resources from a machine I purchased for no benefit to myself.
The “feature” by it’s current definition can only be conceived of by a piece of shit organisation like Microsoft.
No need to separate the art from the artist in this case, as they are perfectly aligned.
They’re just going to do a classical boil-the-frog operation:
- Step 1: Make it opt-in and present it as the new cool thing.
- Step 2: Make it opt-out, and if the users opts out, show a scary warning about how the cool thing won’t work anymore.
- Step 3: Silently opt-in, and hide the opt-out option deeply in a settings menu.
- Step 4: Silently opt-in, remove opt-out, but it still works with a registry hack. Microsoft apologists will still thinks it’s cool because “just use this simple registry hack bro”.
- Step 5: Remove opt-out alltogether, and silently opt-in everyone who had previously opted out.
- Step 6: Enjoy their boiled frog!
You forgot Step 0: make an announcement so overtly egregious that when you walk it back, the compromise sounds reasonable
There’s no reasonable form of this.
No but there sure is a much more unreasonable form of this.
The “two steps forward, one step back” maneuver. Classic.
“You can still install it with a local account!”
Just disconnect your network cable, press this magic key combination and type this undocumented command: “MSBLAOIGKSDF /ACZSF”
Still in the os…
…For now…
“For only $5.99 per month you can opt out of the service! Sign up today!” - MS in the likely near future
WHY THE FUCK WOULD SOMEONE WILLINGLY OPT IN?!
Cause they’re going to show a pop-up that advertises some “cool new feature”, and the 99% of users who aren’t tech literate will say yes and never think about it again.
People on this site severely overestimate how much the average person cares and their overall level of tech.
Yup. Average user doesn’t know what pop or imap is and can’t use their tv remote to change an input.
People will be deceived into opting in via some UI anti pattern like they do with the online user accounts and onedrive now.
Because they’ll add it to the list of coercively and deceptively worded questions they force you to answer before you can use a WIndows account, phrase it so as to sound useful and harmless, and have a big friendly “Sounds great!” button and a tiny “No thanks, I prefer my life to be shit” link.
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…says the company that wanted to destroy every bit of your privacy. I don’t care what they “promise”, don’t listen to them.
Microsoft is finished. Install Linux.
Lies but ok.
I’m sure it’s corporate speak for 'unless you opt into opting out of Microsoft recording everything’s
I have zero reason to trust companies who are known to not be trust worthy.
And who’s to say they don’t have this ‘opt in’ setting enabled for a week then upon the first update, whoops…it was auto enabled for everyone ‘sorry…you must not out now and sorry not sorry but we already stole everything. See y’all next update!’
They use dark patterns and cryptic dialog boxes to get old people to opt in.
Are you certain you don’t want to enhance your Microsoft experience?
^YES, I CRAVE A LIMITED ESPERIENCE^
NO, GIVE ME THE BEST THING
If it’s an embedded feature, then I categorically refuse to trust that I the user will have sole control over the on/off toggle.
I am basing my suspicions on Microsoft fucking around with my user settings over several decades and Windows iterations.
Microsoft will just enable it via an update once all the fervor dies down. They haven’t abandoned the plan, and won’t, not while your data is pure profit for them.
Hell with them, no more Windows PCs in my home. I’m sick to death of everyone and their mother trying to both advertise to me and sell my data without my permission and at zero benefit to me.
Do they really think we believe any of their lies? We don’t control Windows, anti-libre software (it fails to include a libre software license text file, like AGPL). Dangerous! 🚩
I suspect Group Policy will be fully effective at disabling this, and there’s a documented way to prevent it being installed and to remove it.
Imagine a massive corporation built on Risk Management, legal constructs and regulation, such as Wells Fargo, Capital One, CSC, Bank of America, etc, suing the pants off MS because this caused a leak of something, especially some data that’s strictly regulated.
MS wouldn’t stand a chance. Those places have ruthless legal organizations that know their world inside and out.
I feel like if browser history was invented today people would have the same reaction to it.
Browser history was implemented before companies massively abused privacy.
It was an honest feature for users.
We also learned a lot about security regarding password/credential extraction from browsers.Windows Recall might be an honest feature. It might be super secure and really useful.
But Microsoft doesn’t have the trust to pull this offBrowser history also holds significantly less information than a screenshot of you using your computer taken every 3 seconds
It might be super secure and really useful.
It’s not.
Exactly.
Actual security happens from the ground up. It’s the first consideration of every step of every module of code that has any interaction with user data.
The fact that there was any version anywhere near shipping to anyone that resulted in an unsecured database being accessible to other programs tells you that it’s not possible that it’s secure.
This is why I use Firefox focus on my phone
