Some products — like devices powered by combustion engines, medical equipment, farming equipment, HVAC equipment, video game consoles, and energy storage systems — are excluded from Oregon’s rules entirely.
It’s interesting to me that Game Consoles get an exception… Not sure whats up there, other than straight up bribery lobbying.
HVAC makes sense when you consider environmental concerns (some refrigerants are really terrible pollutants).
Medical equipment, particularly equipment in public health care should be held to high standards. Authorized, properly trained repair; peoples lives depend on it.
Energy storage when attached to public infrastructure (you back-feeding the grid) can be a saftey concern for workers and the supply/load needs to be balanced to prevent damaging that infrastructure and other private equipment attached to it. Not sure preventing repair is the right move here; you can still buy and install new without oversight. Perhaps it’s again a saftey concern (for the person performing repair).
Vehicles, farming or otherwise, I’m on the fence about; there’s an argument to be made for public saftey/roadworthness, but I’m not sure that’s enough of an argument to prevent home-repair. Again seems more to do with lobbying than anything else.
There are lots of loyal green customers who are really pissed about the ability to not be able to repair their own stuff, but yet keep buying it. (Similar to a lot of iPhone users)
Probably because they’ll keep repairing it themselves anyway. Making it legal would just make it easier for them to repair it without triggering the tractor’s version of DRM (can’t remember what it’s called).
That is getting really hard to do. Seems like someone could make a market in controllers that replace the factory ones but hook to the factory sensors.
It’s always been a concern; just not enough of one to explicitly forbid working on a vehicle without specific training/licensing. Hence vehicle inspections/roadworthy tests; someplaces more strictly than others.
It’s possible that concern was part of the justification for not requiring manufacturers to make it easier. Spitballing.
As I said, I’m on the fence about it myself. Thing is, a vehicle on public roads has a lot of opportunity to injure or kill someone if a repair was made incorrectly. It’s about more than just a person and the thing they own.
You joke but we’re almost there. Refrigerants are getting more and more proprietary.
I work in the industry and with the push to go to lower global warming potential (GWP) refrigerants manufacturers have developed their own formulas here. It varies from manufacturer to manufacturer even amongst almost identical equipment.
Getting the right refrigerant will only become more and more expensive the more boutique it is. The equipment can already tell what kind of refrigerant is in there based on the system pressures and temperatures.
I’ve been watching Hyperspace Pirate on Youtube and he talks about how hard it is to get commercial access to some basic refrigerants (like ethylene) as someone who isn’t a Pro HVAC tech, and he uses it as an excuse to to create them himself for part of his content.
I work for a medical device manufacturer and you are missing a important reason for that exception. Yes human lives are on the line. In addition WE (meaning my company) are responsible for finding out why it broke and how we will prevent other devices we make from breaking.
We make a device and say it will last 10 years, 2 years later it stops. We have to replace it, We have to investigate to the best of our ability, We have to report our findings to the government, if several cases happen We need to come up with a prevention for the future dailures(or prevention if severe enough). We have entire departments for this. It is our burden not the consumer and it’s our burden so we have enough evidence to determine root cause and final solution so we can prevent further failures.
That’s rather short sighted. I just listed several.
Don’t know about you: I’d rather not have the ventilator keeping grandma alive repaired by the hospitals underpaid maintenance department; but a trained technician from the company that built it.
Some things are about more than just an individuals personal liberties.
The hospitals underpaid maintenance team vrs a licensed tech from the manufacturer is a false dichotomy. The choice could easily be the hospital’s underpaid maintenance team or no repairs at all.
Realistically, they don’t put grandma on the vent because they won’t buy or keep a device they can’t afford to repair.
And why would the company spend more time/effort on their repair staff than the hospital? The company license is no guarantee they aren’t minimum wage nobodies.
Thing is, medical equipment suppliers should be held to higher standards than they are currently. If you’re providing medical equipment to be used in public healthcare: you should be responsible for maintaining and repairing it imo.
There should be a minimum requirement for repair/maintenance/warranty provided by the manufacturer.
Hospitals don’t invest in the ability to perform such repairs largely because of the liability involved, ontop of often being a poorly funded/staffed public service.
The company license is no guarantee they aren’t minimum wage nobodies.
No, but then the manufacturer is responsible for the quality of repair/maintenance performed by its staff.
If something goes wrong with the equipment; it’s on the equipment manufacturer instead of the hospital using it.
With a mandate on repair/maintenance; they’d be forced to provide quality service to survive.
Did you actually read this thread and the replies in it, or were you just overwhelmed by the opportunity to post someone else’s thoughts instead of your own?
Something at least point form of what the video is about would be helpful. I’m in public and don’t have headphones, I’m not going to watch a video (much less 3). If context is presented I might make a note to watch it when I get home.
You certainly can, it may get seen eventually. But I’m not going to sit through an hour of someone else’s content to figure out what point your trying to make.
If you won’t even put some effort in and write your own thoughts out, why should I spend my time researching what you think?
It’s the lack of effort that bothers me. Especially when my time is limited.
John Deere probably bribed lobbied hard for that carve out. It was their practices that helped drive the right to repair movement. Giving them a pass really diminishes the accomplishment.
Smaller farms are going to get screwed over with all the fees and mandatory maintenance that can be imposed.
Everyone gets angry about printers needing a debit card on file but manufacturers like John Deere do similar stuff. If they think you’ve tinkered with it, they can disable the equipment remotely.
It’s interesting to me that Game Consoles get an exception… Not sure whats up there, other than straight up
briberylobbying.HVAC makes sense when you consider environmental concerns (some refrigerants are really terrible pollutants).
Medical equipment, particularly equipment in public health care should be held to high standards. Authorized, properly trained repair; peoples lives depend on it.
Energy storage when attached to public infrastructure (you back-feeding the grid) can be a saftey concern for workers and the supply/load needs to be balanced to prevent damaging that infrastructure and other private equipment attached to it. Not sure preventing repair is the right move here; you can still buy and install new without oversight. Perhaps it’s again a saftey concern (for the person performing repair).
Vehicles, farming or otherwise, I’m on the fence about; there’s an argument to be made for public saftey/roadworthness, but I’m not sure that’s enough of an argument to prevent home-repair. Again seems more to do with lobbying than anything else.
The farming equipment exemption smells like John Deere’s lobbies have been involved.
Oh definitely.
There are lots of loyal green customers who are really pissed about the ability to not be able to repair their own stuff, but yet keep buying it. (Similar to a lot of iPhone users)
Probably because they’ll keep repairing it themselves anyway. Making it legal would just make it easier for them to repair it without triggering the tractor’s version of DRM (can’t remember what it’s called).
That is getting really hard to do. Seems like someone could make a market in controllers that replace the factory ones but hook to the factory sensors.
Cars have been home repaired since cars existed. It has never been a notable safety concern. Somehow it suddenly is?
It’s always been a concern; just not enough of one to explicitly forbid working on a vehicle without specific training/licensing. Hence vehicle inspections/roadworthy tests; someplaces more strictly than others.
It’s possible that concern was part of the justification for not requiring manufacturers to make it easier. Spitballing.
As I said, I’m on the fence about it myself. Thing is, a vehicle on public roads has a lot of opportunity to injure or kill someone if a repair was made incorrectly. It’s about more than just a person and the thing they own.
One thing I’ve notice is you can’t modify the software “because of safety”, but breaks, fuel pipes, ignition systems, that all fine to modify!
Emissions is the biggest concern honestly
Cars emissions is going to be a thing of the past when ICE cars are gone. Can’t wait.
Yeah hopefully so.
HVAC makes no sense to me considering the only real hazard in there is the actual refrigerant gas.
unless they manage to pair the gas, im sure they would if they could
You joke but we’re almost there. Refrigerants are getting more and more proprietary. I work in the industry and with the push to go to lower global warming potential (GWP) refrigerants manufacturers have developed their own formulas here. It varies from manufacturer to manufacturer even amongst almost identical equipment. Getting the right refrigerant will only become more and more expensive the more boutique it is. The equipment can already tell what kind of refrigerant is in there based on the system pressures and temperatures.
I’ve been watching Hyperspace Pirate on Youtube and he talks about how hard it is to get commercial access to some basic refrigerants (like ethylene) as someone who isn’t a Pro HVAC tech, and he uses it as an excuse to to create them himself for part of his content.
I’ll have to check out the channel. Sounds interesting!
I work for a medical device manufacturer and you are missing a important reason for that exception. Yes human lives are on the line. In addition WE (meaning my company) are responsible for finding out why it broke and how we will prevent other devices we make from breaking.
We make a device and say it will last 10 years, 2 years later it stops. We have to replace it, We have to investigate to the best of our ability, We have to report our findings to the government, if several cases happen We need to come up with a prevention for the future dailures(or prevention if severe enough). We have entire departments for this. It is our burden not the consumer and it’s our burden so we have enough evidence to determine root cause and final solution so we can prevent further failures.
As long as you offer a 10 year replacement warranty that’s perfectly fine. Tandem was great about replacing my daughter’s failed insulin pump.
Lots and LOTS of lobbying.
Let your representative know that that is not ok with you.
There’s no excuses for any of these. None.
That’s rather short sighted. I just listed several.
Don’t know about you: I’d rather not have the ventilator keeping grandma alive repaired by the hospitals underpaid maintenance department; but a trained technician from the company that built it.
Some things are about more than just an individuals personal liberties.
The hospitals underpaid maintenance team vrs a licensed tech from the manufacturer is a false dichotomy. The choice could easily be the hospital’s underpaid maintenance team or no repairs at all.
Realistically, they don’t put grandma on the vent because they won’t buy or keep a device they can’t afford to repair.
And why would the company spend more time/effort on their repair staff than the hospital? The company license is no guarantee they aren’t minimum wage nobodies.
Thing is, medical equipment suppliers should be held to higher standards than they are currently. If you’re providing medical equipment to be used in public healthcare: you should be responsible for maintaining and repairing it imo.
There should be a minimum requirement for repair/maintenance/warranty provided by the manufacturer.
Hospitals don’t invest in the ability to perform such repairs largely because of the liability involved, ontop of often being a poorly funded/staffed public service.
No, but then the manufacturer is responsible for the quality of repair/maintenance performed by its staff.
If something goes wrong with the equipment; it’s on the equipment manufacturer instead of the hospital using it.
With a mandate on repair/maintenance; they’d be forced to provide quality service to survive.
Everything you just said applies to hospitals as well.
https://youtu.be/PsJG2ODOcXA?si=Za2_PwoTo2e0r0FF
https://youtu.be/INFouD-dyqY?si=ofzhBKBvj3Q50CI-
https://youtu.be/T2x2rtwakVE?si=TgD4zC3K88HxuLA8
Any questions?
TL:DW?
Yes:
Did you actually read this thread and the replies in it, or were you just overwhelmed by the opportunity to post someone else’s thoughts instead of your own?
Just to verify, are we not allowed to share YouTube links on the subject being discussed?
Something at least point form of what the video is about would be helpful. I’m in public and don’t have headphones, I’m not going to watch a video (much less 3). If context is presented I might make a note to watch it when I get home.
You certainly can, it may get seen eventually. But I’m not going to sit through an hour of someone else’s content to figure out what point your trying to make.
If you won’t even put some effort in and write your own thoughts out, why should I spend my time researching what you think?
It’s the lack of effort that bothers me. Especially when my time is limited.
Finding and putting in those links took effort, and they’re germane to the conversation being had.
Perhaps you’re not judging ‘effort’ fairly?
Sure, but it also created a research project for me, instead of just speaking their mind for me to then respond to.
It just kills the conversation.
If you’ve got an opinion, voice your opinion. Why do you need someone else to speak for you?
They’re my thoughts. Have any counter points or are you just gonna foam at the mouth?
Odd, the YouTube channel says ‘LouisRossman’, not ‘Mango@lemmy.world’. Perhaps you are Louis incognito? Doesn’t seem likely.
Again; I’d recommend actually reading this thread. Specifically; the reply from vrek, if you couldn’t narrow that down for yourself.
THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE RIGHT PERSON! WE CAN’T THINK THE SAME THINGS.
… Ok then. Enjoy your stay at the deep end… Pce
The refrigerant wouldn’t have anything to do with parts pairing though. This is just the electronic components.
Parts pairing is just one piece of the puzzle; this is more broadly about access to parts, which would include proprietary refrigerants.
Didn’t Apple try and class their iPhones as game consoles a couple months back?
John Deere probably
bribedlobbied hard for that carve out. It was their practices that helped drive the right to repair movement. Giving them a pass really diminishes the accomplishment.Smaller farms are going to get screwed over with all the fees and mandatory maintenance that can be imposed.
Everyone gets angry about printers needing a debit card on file but manufacturers like John Deere do similar stuff. If they think you’ve tinkered with it, they can disable the equipment remotely.
Aside from maybe HVAC dealing with refrigerant needing a licensed tech to work on, the rest of these not being included is such a scam.